SPEAKER_01 0:00

It’s based on your environment, your relationship to money. It is the second longest relationship you’ll have in your entire life, other than yourself. So it does behoove you to understand what your relationship is to money.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

I love how you just put it. Like, I’m gonna like underscore that and probably quote you now that it is the second longest relationship you’ll ever have, which is true. Like as soon as you’re a teenager, as soon as I had my first job, like I had money, right? I didn’t know what to do with it, but I had money, right? Right. So there is my relationship with money.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

You need money from the day you’re born to the day that you die.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Welcome back to the 925 Wellness Podcast, where we explore the intersection of career growth and health. Today, we are tackling a corporate wellness topic that impacts every one of us, but many of us don’t make that connection. I’m talking about your financial health and why so many high-achieving professionals still feel like they don’t have their money together. Even when they’re earning well. My guest today, Rebecca Pino, is a financial advisor, entrepreneur, and financial educator focused on helping people build healthier, more intentional relationships with money. She has an MBA in finance, and she’s the founder of the app Inertia. And let me tell you, she is building a new approach to money management rooted in behavioral finance. And we’ll get into why traditional budgeting often falls short of which financial decisions you can put on autopilot and kind of like forget about them, and how habits, emotions, and lifestyle creep shape the choices we make. If personal finance has ever felt like a second job, this episode is going to give you simpler, more realistic tips and a place to start at. And I want to introduce Rebecca a little more to you. So you can scroll.

unknown 2:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

And I want to talk to you a little bit more about Rebecca. Let me redo this. And I want to talk to you a little bit more about Rebecca. She is a financial advisor and financial educator, and she’s focused on helping people build healthier, more intentional relationships with money. She has experience working directly with individuals and families. She has become particularly interested in the gap between knowing what we should do with our money and what we are actually doing. Through her advisory work at writing, speaking, and financial education platforms, Rebecca’s goal is to make conversations about money more approachable, practical, and human. Welcome to the podcast, Rebecca. Thank you so much for having me. I’m so glad that you could join us. I am super excited about our topic today because I think there’s a lot of still stigma and fear around talking about money. Absolutely. It’s not that we all don’t use money, like, you know, I just used it right now on a cup of coffee before coming here. But it’s something that even within families, like, you know, sometimes I grew up in a family where, you know, talking about money was not a normal thing. We never talk about money. Um, of course, of course, I’m from an immigrant family, and it was something like we just never talked about it. Right. Right? Right. So I’m super excited about, you know, this conversation today because I want to normalize talking about money. Because the more conversations we have, I believe, the more we start learning about what makes us better at it.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Absolutely. And like you said, the more exposure that you have to talking about money, I, you know, I’m doing a lot of research right now about the history of why it’s so taboo to talk about money. And it’s so ingrained in our society that there is fear, there’s emotions, there’s behavior. It’s based on your environment, your relationship to money. It is the second longest relationship you’ll have in your entire life, other than yourself. So it does behoove you to understand what your relationship is to money.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

I love how you just put it. Like, I’m gonna like underscore that and probably quote to you now that it is the second longest relationship you’ll ever have, which is true. Like as soon as you’re a teenager, as soon as I had my first job, yeah, like I had money, right? I didn’t know what to do with it, but I had money, right? Right. So there is my relationship with money.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

You need money from the day you’re born to the day that you die.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

So true. Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Um, the other thing is there was a case study that came out from the University of Cambridge that says that our relationship with money starts as early as age seven. Wow. Which means that a lot of what we absorb that’s ingrained in us is actually coming from our families and inherited from sometimes cultures, sometimes peers. And it is hard work to redo that money script that we have, but I think it is necessary, like I said, because you’re gonna need it until the day that you die. So you might as well understand how you feel about it and put a system and plan in place to actually help you live the life that you want to live.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yes, so important. So here’s my question for you. I’m gonna just backtrack a little bit. Someone who’s just just hitting play on this episode, maybe they’re on their commute or squeezing in a walk between work meetings. What is it about the relationship with money that they’re gonna learn about today from our conversation?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

I think the two things. One is that the difficult thing about money is that there is always a trade-off. And it’s understanding actually, to answer the question. My idea of a secure relationship with money is not restricting yourself today, you know, earning your income, spending below your means, not feeling restrictive today, but also at the same time saving for your future self. And every single individual has that perfect number that they have to find. And so we’ll talk about how exactly to find that perfect number for you.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Okay, I’m super excited. Because you know what? One of the reasons I host this podcast, and I do say this very openly on social media and everywhere, that one of the reasons I host it is because I learned so much from my guests. So I’m super excited for today’s conversation. Okay. Here’s my question to you because this is something I come across so much in my corporate workshops, that there’s an assumption that if we are successful in our career, if somebody is successful, right, you know, they’re probably a C-suite executive andor managerial position, or if they have their own business, that that means they are, you know, financially they are in great shape. And a lot of times I’m finding out that’s not the case because, you know, when I’m talking about wellness and health and longevity with my patients, and they’re like, that’s not what’s keeping us up and I’m like, okay, what’s keeping you up? Finances. You know, it comes up very, very often. And I’m like, I would have thought in my head, I’m thinking that’s all taken care of. So income and financial confidence, you know, aren’t the same thing. I I I’ve started learning that you can have a very strong salary, right? Uh, a great title, and still feel like you’re not quite in control of where your money is going. So you work with busy professionals who are often successful in their careers. Why can someone be doing very well financially and still feel like they don’t have their money together? It’s almost like almost my patients are telling me we don’t have control over our money. Like as as much as we would like to tell you we’re earning well, it’s still keeping us up at night.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Well, yeah, I mean, just by what you said gave me so, okay. Well, to start, first of all, we’re living in a very frictionless society right now. So you can be making a lot of money, but if you’re spending a lot of it, you’re not actually saving for your future self, saving or investing for your future self, right? And so the reason why I think people stay up at night is because, first of all, you’re throwing darts at a dartboard most of the time. If you don’t sit down with a professional and know exactly how much money you need for retirement, how much money you should be saving, why you should be saving, why is the important question. Then yeah, I can understand why someone would stay up at night. When you were talking, I actually just realized how similar health and finance actually are, because both are internal work, right? Right. Dieting impacts your stomach and budgeting impacts your finances, but it all comes from the inside. Like what we have to do is take care of the inside, how we think, how we function, why we’re doing the things that we’re doing. A lot of times, I mean, again, to bring back to society, we’re living in a society where, first of all, there’s no ceiling to whom you can compare yourself to, right? I can go on social media and see a fake life that I then my brain thinks is reality. And then I start comparing myself and go down a spiral, right? And so if that’s happening on an everyday basis, that’s going to impact your mindset about money. Also, keeping up with the Joneses has become global. It’s not just comparing yourself to your neighbor anymore, it’s comparing yourself to a model on a yacht in France, if I really wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

So that’s the problem. And I think that’s what’s unfortunately hard about money. What I was saying in the beginning is that there is a trade-off with money. The more money you spend today, the less money you’ll have for your future. The problem with that is that our brains think that saving for the future is similar, not the same, but similar to handing money to a stranger. I don’t know who I’m going to be next week, let alone 40 years from now. Why would I save for that, Rebecca? I don’t know her. I don’t know what her life’s going to be like. It’s very hard for us to get there on a mental state. Yeah. So I I totally understand why on the outside people can say, Well, I’m earning so much. A lot of times, wealthy people don’t look rich. A lot of times, wealthy people are having their wealth grow in the background and look like everyday people. Yeah, like Warren Bofett. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

He still lives in his childhood home.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

There’s a reason for that. And so there’s this, there’s this dual, it’s almost causing friction internally in our minds where it’s like, yes, but I’m seeing all these people spend so much money and they imagine the feeling of spending that money versus the repercussions of actually having the money. Our brains are not good at understanding.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, those are great reasons. And I just want to double-click on a couple of things that you said. The first one you said that now we can compare ourselves to almost like anyone, anyone in the world. Yeah. And it’s so funny because I was talking to my mom last week, and my mom was like, you know, when I was a child, like when she was a teenager, she’s like, literally, we had like 10 homes in the neighborhood. Exactly. And those were the only, that was our world. Like, and you know, normally if you’re living in a neighborhood, they’re the same income level. So there wasn’t a lot of comparison. Yeah. Like they were friends. It wasn’t like they were looking up to somebody super rich. Right. So she was like, I never felt the need to, you know, just be an overachiever. Like I was just asking her, like, how come you were so happy with a modest life, mom? Yeah. And she’s like, there was never a need to do anything else. I felt fulfilled. Yeah. And I was like, oh my gosh, like I never put that two and two together. That now we have this whole world world on display. Yeah. And we’re like, no, but we also want to do this, and we also want this, and we also want to have a vacation in Bahamas every year. Right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Right? No, absolutely. It’s interesting because the phrase keeping up with the Joneses came out before people were actually trying to keep up with the Joneses. In the 50s, basically what happened was credit card debt became normalized. And so you had neighbors that were seemingly on the same income level could afford the same things because they were utilizing debt. Yeah. And another thing, too, as a response to what you said, your zip code impacts how much money you’ll make. Oh, tell me more. It’s just when it when we’re talking about more so from a mindset standpoint, basically what they’re taking is probably what your family’s income level is.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

And they’re applying that then to the rest of your life. So there’s there were studies that said that your zip code actually does impact your life.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Makes sense. Makes sense. Because that’s your environment, right? That’s your immediate environment. And I always talk about like this in terms of health. And we are going to draw a lot of parallels between health and finances. Because honestly, if there are two things that impact your life, it’s your health and your finances. Yeah. Right. And they’re and they’re so similar. Like I tell my patients all the time, if you, if I’m telling you that you should stop eating processed food and it’s still sitting in your pantry, guess what? Right. Right. You’re going to eat it. You’re going to reach for it. Whether it’s a Sunday football game, you’re tailgating, and now you’re tempted to reach for it, or it’s late at night, whatever that situation is, or you walk into home late at 8 p.m. after work and you’re like, I can’t even put anything in the microwave. I’m just going to grab that.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Well, I think the common theme between those two industries is convenience. And again, back to the frictionless society, there is rarely friction. Like to paint a picture, if my grandma wanted to buy something, she had to physically get dressed, drive to the bank, take out cash, drive to the store, pick up the item, exchange the item for cash, and then drive back home. I’m exhausted even telling that story. There were so many times along the way where she could have said, actually, not today. I don’t want this item, right? Now I click three buttons and it’s here maybe within the same day. Oh, yeah. It’s and the same thing with food, right? It’s like DoorDash. And you know, you were saying that, but I think one begets the next too. Is money is in everything we do, right? So the food that you buy, the stress, like, yes, uh, money does, in essence, impact your health.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Absolutely. Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. And I just want to expand a little bit on the second thing that you said in response to the first question, which was wealthy people don’t appear rich. Right? Yeah. And I gave you the example of Warren Buffett because I’ve been reading a lot about Buffett and how he started and what he did. Yes. And he started very young. Yeah. Good, you know, good age to just start experimenting with money. Right. And a lot of it is, and we’re gonna probably talk about it today, like delayed gratification, which you kind of touched on. That’s what he practiced most of his wealth, wealth he has earned or built after the age of 65. And a lot of people are just not willing to like crack wait that long. And that brings in the future self thing. Expand a little bit on the fact why don’t why don’t wealthy people feel like they have to show off or why don’t they have that urge?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

I that I don’t know because I think it is dependent on the individual. But I will say that I recently met with a couple and I just knew without knowing, I knew that they were gonna be wealthy. It was just something about them. Yeah. Like, you know, I was like emailing with her before, and she was like, Well, we have like six months of emergency fund, like I’m saving for my call. Like they were just check, check, check every single thing that they could have done right. And I’m like, okay. And then they come in, and I mean, not to be stereotypical, but I feel like sometimes like the nerdy stereotype of like they don’t care. I always said to my family, I think so. My grandparents were first generation and they celebrated the small things. And I feel like I inherited that. And so that actually has helped me more. We’re exaggerating here, but it helps that I don’t need these extravagant things. That actually helps my finances a lot because I don’t feel the desire to compete with people that are getting Air Maze bags, maybe at my age. I don’t even feel the desire to compete with them. So why would I? Right. And so I think it is something in me. And that’s why I don’t know the answer to that question of why some people over others. I know there’s like a famous story, I think it was in the psychology of money of this janitor that had eight million dollars on when he died.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yes, yes. I actually quote him, I I’m totally blanking out on his name. Morgan Housel. Morgan Housel is the author of but the janitor. I don’t know his name. And yeah, he lived in Vermont his whole life. He was a school district janitor, and then he started working at gas station after he retired. And yeah, he left, I think, millions of dollars to hospitals and schools in uh the state of Vermont where he was living. And nobody knew about it till he died about his wealth. So you don’t have to be like doing really well to be wealthy, right? Right? You don’t. It’s a great example.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

You just need time. Yeah. And that’s the importance of starting early.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

So in the health world, we know that the most effective routines are the ones people can actually stick with. You know, a lot of times people would come to me. I’m an exercise physiologist and a sports nutritionist, so they would come to me and they’re like, well, you know, we have done everything, nothing has been working. And then I take a deep dive with them and I take a look at it from a medical point of view too. But I take a deep dive with them. And one of the questions I always ask them is, what do you enjoy? Like, you know, what activity would you do no matter what? Like, I wouldn’t have to tell you to go out for a hike with your kids. Like maybe that’s what it is, or maybe it’s a uh game of tennis with your friends, like whatever that is, write that down for me, right? And then tell me if you can do it like three times a week or not. So that being said, what is your perspective as far as like financial habits or routines to stick to for people? You know, is there something similar? How can people start building good habits around their finances?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Absolutely. Similarly, I tell people to figure out what your values are. Because to me, that then creates a boundary of what is okay to say yes to. Because some people are scared to spend their money. So they’re like, okay, well, if this is within my values, then guilt-free, I can spend it, obviously within reason. But what’s not in my values, it’s now easier to say no to. So that creates a boundary in a frictionless society that we’re living of whether you should or shouldn’t you know internally. That and then also knowing your goals. Because again, that I call it the yin-yang number, right? Of like protecting your future self, but also not restricting to the extreme your present self. Yes. And so working backwards from your goals, right? It’s like, okay, if I need X amount of dollars and I have X amount of months to do it, that’s a simple math equation. Right. Yeah. Sometimes there’s investments involved, compound interest, whatever. But you know, there are calculators that you can use for that and figure out what number you need to retire, what number you want for your house, and then work backwards from that. And the other problem, I talked about the first problem with money of trade-offs. Whatever you spend today, you can’t spend tomorrow, can’t save tomorrow, whatever, it’s gone. The other problem is time, is the discipline and the consistency it takes for the amount of time that it actually takes to build wealth. And that’s the thing that I think people don’t fully comprehend about money. And it’s a shame.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah.

unknown 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Same with health, too, depending on where you’re starting. Where they’re starting. Yeah. Of course, not as much time as wealth, but it does take it takes considerable amount of time.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yes. I like if someone said, I want to be a millionaire, they wouldn’t expect to be a millionaire tomorrow. Same thing as If someone wanted a six-pack, they couldn’t just do three sit-ups and have a six-pack tomorrow, right? That is where it’s the exact same mental mindset of it is not one decision. It is multiple decisions multiple times a day. That over con over years and years and years, right? That’s what builds wealth. That’s what builds health.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

I’m so glad you talked about decisions because I was just going to tell you that my next question is a concern from a few people who I’ve talked to very recently. And this is what they have said that, you know, as professionals, we are already making hundreds of decisions a day at work. Because they’re in a position, in an executive position at work, they’re overseeing big teams, right? And they’re like, you know, the amount of decisions and the emails that we have to send on a daily basis. If if I was to just tell you that, like I’m exhausted. I am fatigued. Like there’s a decision fatigue, which we call it, right? So by the time they’re like, we get home or we’re driving home, which is when they spend most of their money, that’s what I’ve heard from them. The last thing they want to do is sit down and figure out where every dollar should go. So if someone doesn’t want personal finance to become like another job, what financial decisions or systems should they be working on so that some of the things are just taken care of, like on autopilot? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

To talk a little bit about inertia here, actually, because this is why I built the algorithm the way that I did. So weekly, you should take a look back at what you’ve spent your money on, why you’ve spent it, how do you feel about certain purchases? Doesn’t have to be everything. Like if you’re swiping the subway, you don’t have to look at every transaction, but dinner with friends, did you enjoy that? Could you have gone to yoga maybe if you’re saving for X goal, right? It’s like figuring out, okay, reflecting on the week. On the month, it’s figuring out what your budget is for next month, projecting out, reflecting on the actual month.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

And then what I like to tell people is well, first of all, auto. Automate anything that you possibly can, investments, savings goals, like everything. Money should be moving without you even thinking about it. Like that’s, and that takes one one hour session to just figure out a system. And that’s the thing about money is it doesn’t have to be end all be all. Like that should actually be just trial number one. And I like to encourage people to at least once a quarter have like an actual money date with themselves. Sit down, look at your investments, look at your savings, look at your goals, have your values changed. Maybe you had a kid, right? There, there’s a lot of stuff that as life goes on, and this is where financial planning is very important, your life will change. It just will. And so your money system should keep up with your goals and your life changing. So to answer that question in short, money date at least quarterly to check everything, right? Because if you have decision fatigue and if you’re involved with a partner as well, use it as like a date, literally. Like get a few drinks, like matchas, coffee, or if you do want to drink wine while looking at money, all for it. Right. But, you know, it’s it is important to talk about these things and understand where your money’s going because the last thing you want is to have decision fatigue over something as important as money. That’s just it.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

True. That’s just it. I was just gonna ask you if you would recommend couples to have money to aid too. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

And I think that each couple, different couples will have different money systems as well. Sometimes, you know, everyone pulls something in one bucket, or sometimes it’s pro rata. I like to tell couples, I actually just spoke to a client about this today. I like an 80-20 rule where 80% of their money, and this doesn’t have to be exactly 80%, right? A couple can say, okay, I want 60% because I have a business and I have to keep money here, whatever. But 80% should be pooled into future goals, savings, investing. So that includes retirement, paying off any debt, whatever. And then 20% gets broken down into 10 and 10, and each person keeps their own money. This is primarily to avoid fights in the future, really. Because if, you know, he or she wants to do something that you don’t necessarily agree with, you already said that you were gonna do it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Um, but it’s also to it is important from the women’s perspective to always have your own money. Always.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah, I want to underscore that. That women should have financial autonomy, even in a relationship. It is so important. And I think a lot of women don’t realize it till it’s too late.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yes, exactly. I was actually just talking to a therapist on the way here who now focuses on specifically money, and we were talking about power dynamics. And what happens is a lot of times women manage the day-to-day spending of the household. Yeah. And they outsource because of the decision fatigue. Maybe the husband is inclined or, and I’m stereotyping heterosexual relationship, but I think men tend to be more inclined or more passionate about learning about specifically investing. So maybe she’s handling the budget of the household, how much money it costs to run the household, but he’s managing your entire future. And if you don’t know, it’s okay if you want him to manage, if he’s like, you know, really into it, does a good job, whatever. You need to know where your money’s going. That is the bare minimum, is you need to know exactly what’s happening, where your money is, what investments, even if you don’t understand the investments, just know because, but if something happens, I was gonna say something else. If something happens, you want to know. You want to know the answers if you’re gonna involve a financial advisor like me at some point in the future. And I encourage people to, because it’s a good second opinion on the matter.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Absolutely, absolutely. And I completely wholeheartedly agree that while you’re in the relationship and the relationship is on positive terms and you’re yeah, everything is going well, having that quarterly approach, some couples do it every two months, which is great. I’m like, oh my god. Yeah, even monthly. I would love that. Um, but having that just clarity around like where you guys stand, what the goals are together, individual goals too, it doesn’t matter. But both the party, both the individuals in the relationship should know where the money is and then where it’s gonna go next. Right, right. And of course you can change. It should. You we evolve as people and not, and our goals evolve. If you have kids and later on, then it’s another totally different conversation where your money is headed. But having that clarity and having that knowledge in a relationship that, okay, uh, I know that okay, I am just, you know, um managing the household expenses on a daily basis, and he’s taking care of the bigger, you know, expenses, including our savings, but I am aware of where we stand, right? So so important. Let’s talk about financial health again. How much of financial health is actually behavior rather than mathematics? Because I I have a very mathematical brain and I feel like I’m always crunching numbers. I wasn’t accounting before this, and I’m like, I’m just so trained to just crunch numbers. However, I don’t take a look at, and this is my downfall when it comes to money. I don’t take a look at emotional health. You get emotional happiness. Like money brings you happiness, like it should, right? That is one of the purposes of money. And I I kind of totally disregard it. Like I’m like, no, if we are bringing in this much, this percentage should go this. So I’m very like black and white, whereas people I’ve talked to, people even in my family, there they have this gray area, which they call that emotional well-being or being happy. And I I want your take on it. How do emotions play into our financial well-being? What do you suggest? Should there be like a certain amount of your budget that should be like kind of flexible?

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think to answer your first question, I think a I say at least 80% is behavioral, emotional, and environmental about money. And a lot of women go, I’m bad at math, so I’m bad at finance. And I’m like, those two don’t, it doesn’t, it’s not like that. It’s not like that at all. Because a lot, it’s personal finance, it’s personal, it’s what you think about money.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Let’s talk about that because that’s another thing I wanted to bring up, which is kind of like tied into emotions, like beliefs, right? Our money beliefs. Yeah. Because a lot of the beliefs are coming from our childhood. So, how do those play in our financial decisions? And what do you counsel like your clients for those?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, I mean, I I encourage them to take a look at it and question where it’s coming from because a lot of times I’m just thinking of this one client that I have. They have multi, multi-millions and they feel guilty buying strawberries from the farmer’s market because they were ten dollars. Where does that come from? Right? Like who in your childhood told you that that was wrong to spend that type of money on something so small? I’ve also heard people talk about how they can spend money on big things, but the small things they will sweat over. Yeah. They will be stressed over. So everyone is different. And so it really is an internal journey of why. I encourage people to kind of figure out what their money story is. I ask people, what is your earliest money memory? And how does that then impact you in adulthood? Normally, just that one question, I can get a lot of information from them.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah. Yeah. So that’s a great question to ask. What’s your money story? What’s your earliest money memory? What’s your earliest money memory? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You’re thinking about yours? Yeah, that’s a great one. No, I I was just gonna um talk to you about what you the example you gave me, like of a person who has like, you know, who’s thinking twice about buying strawberries from farmers market, and I wouldn’t even think right. Like I wouldn’t, but then I don’t buy jewelry, like I don’t buy real jewelry, like I feel like it’s a waste of money, like you know, it’s it’s not my thing, it’s just not my thing. I just like costume jewelry, and I I I’m a lot of my friends do, and hey, I’m not judging anyone, but different things bring joy to different people, and I’m pretty okay with it. Uh, same thing. I have a friend who recently bought a BMW, and I’m like, great, good for you. But then the other day I was like, oh, let’s go grab a cup of coffee, and she she’s like, oh no, but that’s like we’re not gonna go to this coffee shop. I’m like, why not? Because it’s ten dollars. It’s just a cup of coffee, right? So I’m thinking in my head not to judge anyone’s decisions, but I’m like, I would rather think totally opposite. Like, you know, I would actually rather go on a Sunday morning, sit in a nice coffee shop just after my run. That’s my thing to do. Right. I don’t mind spending $10 on a large cup of latte with an extra shot of espresso. That’s my coffee order, in case you guys did not. I I enjoy that. Yeah. And I wouldn’t care what I’m driving or if I have a diamond, you know, bracelet or not, I would care less. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

A story that comes to mind actually was so I was raised by two financial advisors as parents. And wow, that’s where you get it from. But I but my whole thing was I didn’t know about money. And so my I said, if I don’t know, what is everyone else doing? And that’s when this whole thing started. Like that’s that was the downward. Right? Right? I think it’s because I just wasn’t interested in it. I thought I was bad at math. And so I didn’t ask questions. My dad caught taught me about compound interest when I was eight years old. But so the story is I saw this guy driving a Ferrari and I go, Dad, look, a Ferrari. And he turns to me and says, Don’t be impressed by a car. Because you don’t know if that person has two nickels to rub together. Again, going back to our original conversation of don’t believe everything that you see on the outside, because it’s definitely not the full story. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Yeah, no, that’s so true. So true. And it I love the question like, what was your first what is your first money memory? You know? Yeah. Like, where did it all start? And I ask my patients, like, when did this weight start creeping up? Like a lot of times, because health problems are related to their weight problems and weight issues. And I’m like, do you remember when you let go of like, you know, just yourself and you’re like, okay, I I’m just gonna soothe myself with food? And it is a lot of times, like we are soothing ourselves with money. Like I drink with a cup of coffee. I’m admitting I do it too. There’s there’s so many ways we do that. Right. So, okay, so what you just shared kind of like highlights that a lot of times it’s not just about knowing about the right numbers, it’s also a lot about what story we were told or we saw around us and the memories that we have. So it’s about understanding why we are making those choices, right? And that brings me to what you’re building. You’re building inertia, as you mentioned, around behavioral finance. What did you feel was missing from the financial apps and the budgeting tools that already exist? And there are so many of them. Right. And what are you hoping to do differently, hoping to bring a different app to the market? Tell us a little more about it.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

So, the main two differentiators is one, why? Why are you doing things? What are your financial patterns? What’s your financial relationship? So, inertia is going to help you learn that. The second thing is that there is no app that connects both goals and spending. So, oftentimes we say, okay, I want to do a vacation, right? And inertia will then go, you need $200 a month to save for that vacation. Where are you going to get that $200? Let’s go into your transactions and see what you have regretted, what have you thought was worth it? What do you want to continue to spend your money on? So it’s really reflecting on where exactly your money’s going. You have no idea how many times I’ve spoken to people that again have a lot in investments and say, I don’t know where my money goes on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yeah. So having that accountability is a big aspect, right? Yeah. Of financial health.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

It’s optimization. Because also with the financial industry, a lot of people think that you need to have a million dollars to have a financial advisor, right? And so I am trying to give anyone access to what a financial advisor’s brain would look like.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah. Yeah. That’s I love that. I love that. So that’s great. I can’t wait. I can’t wait for your app to go live. So one of the things that I’m hearing again and again from you, which I kind of want to expand a little bit up on before we wrap it up, is that there are so many decisions and we are not aware of those decisions. What is the best way to stay accountable to like even ourselves?

SPEAKER_01 39:01

A lot of times stuff just happens, right? It’s like I got home, I was tired, and I got DoorDash. Yeah. And it makes total sense why you would in that moment. It may even make sense to me now. Like I’m like, I get it. I get that you’re tired and you want to just order food because it just makes your life easier. But the thing is to be reflective and future thinking at the same time. That’s what is the difficult thing about money. And that’s what people need to start doing and be aware of. You can get DoorDash. That’s totally fine. Maybe don’t get it next week, or limit the amount of times you get it, understanding, again, putting boundaries in place, right? Maybe you do have a budget to do DoorDash twice a week. And then it’s like a relief and guilt-free for you for those two times a week, right? Or maybe instead you say, I’m never gonna do it alone. I’m gonna eat it with my partner or a friend, right? It’s again just adding boundaries in a frictionless, boundaryless society that we’re living in. That is the challenge. And so you have to be both proactive and reactive to your money habits.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

I love how you just put it. You have to be both proactive and reactive. Yeah. And I think we don’t kind of like place that with money, not with our money habits, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:19

I think it’s also because we don’t see the importance of it in the long run, right? Because again, going back to handing money to a stranger, it’s like, okay, well, I I’m tired. I want DoorDash now. And it’s like, yes, but spending $50 on DoorDash today gives you $50 less in the future. Another thing, too, every time someone brings up a cup of coffee and how much it costs, I like to say to them, in 20 to 30 years, your $10 cup of coffee will be 20. So true. Yeah, yeah. With inflation. Yeah. And so this is why investing and prioritizing at least a little bit of your future self is so important. Yeah, there’s a latte effect, right? Dave Ramsay. I think Dave Ramsay came up with the idea. That is more so of the accumulation of $5 lattes throughout the month. Yeah. My thing is with inflation, the cost of living will go up every will double every 20 to 30 years. So your $10 matcha coffee will be $20 in 20 years from now.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Yeah. So if you’re enjoying it today and you want to continue to enjoy it, you got to be investing.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

So another thing, too, that some people say is if you’re saving for something, so like a pair of sneakers that you really wanted to buy, sometimes I encourage people to save twice the amount. Invest one pair and then buy the other pair so that at least you’re giving your future self a little something.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

I love that. Okay. Now I’m hooked on this future self. I have to expand a little bit on that. I want us to expand a little bit on that. Because you’re right. A lot of times people are not. I think when it comes to our well-being in any scenario, like finances, health, even career, sometimes business, like it’s a long game. Very long it’s a long game. You have to have that grit and endurance to stay in it for the long term to see uh good results. Everybody can get through average, but but you know, if you want good results, which includes like you know, building well wealth, you have to prioritize your future self, as you’re saying. But I feel like we are at least in today’s age and era where we are connected through internet and whatnot, now AI. We are built for instant gratification. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

That and also we hear the big splashes. Yeah. We hear the plane crashes over the car crashes. Yeah. Not to be morbid. But that’s it’s called survivorship bias for reasons. So we hear about the companies that sell for hundreds of millions of dollars. We don’t hear about the companies that sell for one million because it’s not sexy. And so living within that world, yeah, I would understand why someone would say, Well, he did it, and I’m not seeing the blood, sweat, and tears that went into his journey. But like, I want that. Right? Yeah. We did say in the beginning of the podcast that I would give you how to actually calculate what your number. Yeah, let’s get to it. Okay. So when we’re talking about present and future self. So my whole thing is you want to sustain your current life for as long as possible. And going back to the big splashes is that those are unlikely. So your best bet is to save and invest for the life that you’re living now. Obviously, it’s going to change, but the most sustainable way that you can keep it going for as long as possible. Right. Sure. So what you have to do is calculate what your monthly expenses are. Yeah. Multiply that by 400. Yeah. Right. So I usually like to tell people monthly expenses are your average credit card statement and then your monthly rent utilities, whatever. Yeah. So multiply by 400. And then depending on how old you are, 20 to 30 year olds multiply that by three. And 40 to 50 year olds multiply that by two. And that is your freedom number. That is the number you need to retire to then maintain your current lifestyle, not taking inflation into consideration.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Okay. So we have to go over this formula once again. Yes. Just so that everybody hears it. Yes. Okay. And I also memorize it. So go over it again, please.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Okay. So monthly expenses, usually rent, utilities, mortgage, whatever, the necessities. The necessities plus your credit card balance statement. So whatever you’re paying off. That’s what I like to tell people is usually the average of how much money you’re spending each month. Sure. So now you multiply that by 400. The reason being is because there’s a rule of 300 and I added another 100 for taxes. Gotcha. So multiply that by 400. That’s smart. That’s already going to be a big number. Yeah. Now, if you are 20s to 30s, multiply that by three because that’s then helping you with inflation. Obviously, these are just rules of thumbs. And then 40s, 50s, multiply that by two.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

So that is the number you should have in retirement.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Have in retirement. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

And again, that’s an estimate. It’s not necessarily for inflation. It’s not 100% accurate, but it gives you a good gut check of where you need to be. That’s good. And so then what you do is knowing that number, you then work backwards and say, okay, how much do I need to contribute? How much interest am I realistically going to get? And how much time do I have to get that number? The longer time you have, yes, it’s going to be a larger number because we multiplied it by three, but you have time. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

I love it. It’s a great way to reverse engineer where you want to end up in your retirement. That’s great. Okay. So to wrap it up, a busy professional who has been listening to our conversation and they’re like, okay, I love this conversation. I’m not as overwhelmed anymore. But I still want to know what is the low-hanging fruit. What are the first three things you would recommend someone who just heard our interview and conversation today for them to do or to start with?

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Yeah. Probably should have spoken about this earlier, but there’s something that I like to call the hierarchy of wealth. So debt management is at the base of the hierarchy. So have all of your debt managed. By managed, I mean have a plan for student loans, mortgage, whatever. Bad debt like credit cards, pay them off.

unknown 47:11

Done.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Next is savings. Have six months of emergency fund plus any short-term goals. So short-term goals to me mean zero to two years. Vacations, maybe you’re buying a house soon, maybe you’re having a baby. Have that usually available to you. And then the top is investing. So that’s what people should focus on, those three things.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Oh, wonderful. So the hierarchy is pay off the debt or have a plan for the debt for the for the debt that you carry. And then the second one was savings.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

So short-term goals plus emergency fund.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Yeah, emergency fund is like a must, especially in today’s economy. Exactly. You know, things are changing so much. Jobs are changing so much, actually. Yeah. Um, and then the last one is investing.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

So those are the three priorities in order. Because if you don’t have your debt managed, specifically with credit card debt, it doesn’t even make sense to be investing. Yes, maybe having a low hum on your retirement because that should just be going on in the background regardless, but really utilizing your cash flow to focus on your debt first, get out of that, the bad debt, then move up to savings, and then move up to investing. And it’s a trickle theory, right? Like that’s that’s what a Nertia algorithm does too. It’s like, okay, if you’re putting $800 towards credit card debt, at some point in the future, that $800 is going to become free. Yeah. Open up in cash flow. So then where is the next best thing to put it? Right. Then you reach your emergency fund and maybe you have $1,200 a month now. Now you jack up your retirement contributions or split that in half with like buying a house in 10 years plus retirement, right? And so that’s where it’s strategically figuring out where to put the money is also important, but you can create a system for that. And a lot of it’s automation and then checking in quarterly.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Yeah, that’s great. This is so good. I actually learned a lot from you today. Thank you. Thanks for sharing these tips and all this goodness. Uh, where can people learn more about you and find out about you? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

So I have a lot going on on social media right now. I have two handles for the women. Money Her Way is basically my resource for specifically finances around women. And then my personal brand is I am Becca Pino.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

I am Becca Pino. And they’re these are both Instagram handles. Yes. Okay, great. That’s great. Thank you, Rebecca. Thank you so much. Having this conversation with us. I learned a lot, and I bet people who are listening and watching to us at home or at work will take away a lot of you know good stuff from here. And please reach out to Rebecca. Yeah. And I can’t wait for us to have this conversation again once inertia is you know live. Yeah. And I’d love to actually start budgeting on it and see where I’m spending too much. Although I’m not gonna wait for that anymore. You’re right. Thank you. Thank you so much. And thanks everyone for watching our podcast episode here andor listening to us. Thanks. Bye for now.