SPEAKER_01 0:00

You have done it.

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Like you’ve practically shown the world that it’s possible. I think a lot of women think tone means no muscle mass at all. It’s lower fat with strategically placed muscle that accentuate how lean you are.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Four world records in weightlifting is no joke. It’s also one of those things where you show up, you know exactly what you have to do, you do the work, you get the stuff. Most women have been told that lifting heavy will make them bulky, but the science says otherwise. In this episode of the 925 Wellness Podcast, I’m sitting down with a four times world record holder to break down how women actually build muscle, how to train, how to fuel, and why strength training is one of the best investments you can make in your health and longevity. If you’ve ever felt unsure about where to start in the weight room, this conversation is for you. Welcome back to the podcast. Today, my guest is Emily Who. She’s a former professional powerlifter, biomedical engineer, and operator and investor in the medical device and health technology industries. As an elite strength athlete, she has broken up four all-time world records and appeared on Dwayne Johnson’s, also known as The Rock, at Titan Games. Professionally, Emily has worked at the intersection of engineering, medicine, and human performance. Her work spans orthopedic research, longevity-focused nutritional product development, and development of health and fitness monitoring variables at Verily, formerly Google Life Sciences. By combining first-hand experience as an elite athlete with a deep understanding of biomedical science and health technology, Emily brings a unique perspective to strength, fitness, and healthy aging. She is passionate about helping women understand their bodies, build strength, and take a more informed science-based approach to lifelong health and wellness. Welcome to the podcast, Emily. Thank you. So I am super excited about our conversation today because normally, you know, I have either physicians and or exercise scientists talking to me about building strength. And we talk a lot about academic stuff, or we are talking about, okay, this is what evidence shows us, and this is what you should be doing. But uh sitting with you today means you have done it. Like you’ve practically shown the world that it’s possible. So thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah, of course. In a lot of ways, I’m like an N of one case study for a lot of things. That’s I guess that’s how I view my life, you know, being like a researcher.

unknown 2:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

No, that’s a good thing to do. That’s always a good thing to do. Yeah, we are, and technically, if you think about it, I I like the way you just put it. N of one. We are all N of one because we are so unique. No two human beings are the same, right? So what works for you might not work for me, but yes, there are certain um, I want to say, like formulas or uh generalizations we can establish, which we are gonna talk about today, that work for majority of people. But then you’ll have to tweak it. Every person, every listener, every viewer of this interview is gonna have to tweak it to their lifestyle, to their uh genetics, right? To how their body’s feeling afterwards. So that’s a great way to put it. Okay, so we’re gonna start with your story. Tell us your story. Like four world records in weightlifting is no joke. Were you always this athletic? How did your powerlifting journey start? Take us like back to the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Okay, so I think most people you meet who are good athletes will say, like, oh, I was a lifelong athlete, I was varsity, this and that. That was not me. I was the exact opposite. Oh no. I was like the laziest kid on the planet. Um, I was like smart and I was like a true engineer where like I was smart and clever enough to do the bare minimum and to do no more. And that’s how I viewed everything. So as a child, um, I enrolled in gymnastics because my sister wanted to. And you know, I just kind of showed up and I did what I was told. I never got better. I was a little frustrated by the fact that I never got better, but I was also young enough that I really didn’t understand what it meant to like work hard or to train in a sport. So that was like elementary, and then junior high, I did taekwondo. I did it for a very long time. It’s also one of those things where you show up, you know exactly what you have to do. You do the work, you get the boat. And then, you know, that was that. But once again, my heart wasn’t really in it. It was like something I did to hang out with the other kids after school. Then uh high school rolled around, and then I have very strict immigrant parents who believe that anything extracurricular that didn’t involve studying was terrible for my future and would make me just an awful student and person. So they they banned any kind of physical activity, any like intramurals. So I just and I wasn’t that motivated that I really cared. So it was fine. Um, so not that athletic growing up. College comes, and when you go to school, you get a free gym membership. So that was nice. Yeah. So for the first time I had access to a gym. And I think like every girl, I just do a bunch of cardio because I don’t want to get fat. So that was the entirety of like my gym career. And then a little later I picked up martial arts again and I just dabbled in it. I never got good enough to compete. I never trained hard enough to compete. It was just once again something I did to feel cool and to not get fat. Um, so not like a stellar athlete, just kind of like a really in-shape person, a really in-shape active for person.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

It sounds stellar to me so far for real.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

But you know, I wasn’t like like if you had to pick out of a lineup who could be like a professional athlete, I’d pick the last person you’d pick. You’d say, like, this person is fit and they’re they’re not fat, but they don’t seem like physically that talented. Makes sense. That’s fine. Makes sense. So then, you know, real life hits. I start my first uh desk job. I am an engineer in Silicon Valley, so I work at a startup. Um, I work in the medical device industry, and I’m a biomedical engineer, so most of my work is in the clinic. I’m traveling all the time, or I’m at a desk, and just the lifestyle is so different from college where you kind of have your own schedule, you can go to the gym all the time. I was on the road and there was no martial arts class on the road, so that no like group class to not get fat. And I just didn’t manage my stress well, so I gained like 10 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

And then, oh no, for the first time in my life, I feel kind of chubby and I don’t know how to lose the weight. Like doing a lot of cardio just wasn’t enough or not accessible to me at that point in my life. So I did what a lot of people do, and I joined a gym, like a 24-hour fitness, and heard a personal trainer. Yeah. And I said, I need to lose a lot of weight. Historically, I’ve lost weight by doing martial arts classes. So I need you to take me through something like boot campy or hit-like.

unknown 7:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

And you know, this guy was an old school bodybuilder. He’s a really, really big guy, former military. And he said, Well, if you want to lose a lot of weight, the best way to lose weight as a woman or anyone is to uh lift really heavy weights, build some muscle mass, and that will really increase your metabolism. Yeah, sounds like a good coach. This is 20 years ago, though. Yeah, even then, I mean he sounds like a very knowledgeable coach. He was completely right, yeah. Right. But this was this was not quite 20 years. I want to like add to my age. This was almost 20 years ago. You’re giving it away, right? Yeah, okay. This is a long time ago when heavy lifting for women was not cool. Like, sure, you know, only military women or lesbians lifted weights back then, right? CrossFit was not like not a thing. No, it was it was nascent, it was like starting to like become a thing, but it wasn’t a thing. Yeah. So as an Asian woman, I said what all Asian women say. I don’t want to lift heavy weights because I’m gonna get bulky. I want to do like boot camp and pink weights, and I want to do a bunch of abs.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

You’re speaking my language, yeah, right now. Exactly. My mom was like, don’t lift weights. Like, you know, you’re actually gonna get fat.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Our culture says that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because every female friend I had who was of some Asian variety said, Why can’t you just lift pink weights and do like sit-ups? Yeah. And I was like, Well, I’ve been doing that for two years, I’m still fat. So this trainer said, Okay, let’s try it my way. If you don’t like it, if you think you’re getting bulky, we’ll switch to your way the second you don’t like it. And I was like, All right, like try something new. You drive a hard bargain. You’re also a large, scary guy. I don’t want to argue with you. Yeah. So we do it his way, and wow, it feels so good. I’m so scared. But you know, I have this personal trainer. He has me do really easy single axis machines. So it’s like seated row, seated press. Everything is as simple as possible, but he just makes sure that I lift as much weight as I possibly can during the session and that I tax myself. Yeah. So he keeps it easy, but he makes it challenging. And I feel so good after. And then within a month, I lose so much weight. So you know, at that point, I’m like, oh, I’m convinced. Um, this feels great. I’m losing so much weight. And I’ve like, I’m strong like I’ve never been before. So that felt really good. Yes. And so over time I kept working with this guy. He eventually showed me a barbell movement because he said that uh metabolically the biggest bang for my buck was a barbell movement because it uses so many muscle groups. And he showed me the barbell deadwift, and that was like a game changer. It was so hard, but um, it just like physically wiped me out. But the endorphins afterwards were insane.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

So from there, I was hooked. I like wanted to lift all the time. And I lost so much weight. Uh, that first year, just like learning how to do basic bodybuilding. This wasn’t even really powerlifting because it was machines and sometimes a deadlift. I I think I was as skinniest I’ve ever been. And that includes like having muscle mass. I lost so much weight and like I felt like I looked great and I felt great, and I was like strong, like I’d never been. So it um that changed my life in a very positive way.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yeah, no, it sounds amazing. It sounds amazing. And we are gonna get back into this story to the point where you start competing and stuff, it’s coming. Yeah. Uh, but I want to highlight some of the things you just said that you know how we have this misconception or a myth that if you build muscle, you’re not gonna look good. Or just like you said, it doesn’t look attractive on women. I think that is not true. It really depends on how far you want to go with, you know, building muscle too. But the more muscle mass you have, the better you are setting yourself up for longevity and functional health, you know, down the road as you age, which we are all aging. I mean, everybody would agree we are not getting younger. Not yet. We’re not Benjamin Button. So that being said, I mean, why not? Why wouldn’t we do that? Um, and now it’s being normalized, which is a great thing for women. But back 20, 20 years ago, no, it wasn’t a thing. Right. Yeah. So I can relate with you on that. The other thing is that you said, oh, you started seeing results. I tell women all the time, listen, within six weeks, you are gonna be thanking me. If you start with a trainer and or follow a program that is progressive in nature, you’re gonna get stronger and you’re gonna melt fat, replace that fat with muscle mass. You’re gonna feel amazing.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yeah. And then you’re just gonna be a different shape in places where like it’s gonna look really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you’re gonna get a toned body, right? Yes, yes. Yeah. And I think a lot of women think tone means no muscle mass at all. But toned is not no muscle mass, it’s lower, lower fat with like strategically placed muscle that accentuate your how lean you are, right? Because like when people think of tone, they think of a little bit of a round shoulder, a little bit of abs, and a little bit of butt. So that’s not no muscle. Yeah, that’s like lower fat and like shapely muscle.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And um, one of the other things about that is like since strength training gives you results so fast, if you try it, it does. Uh, you have to accompany it with proper nutrition because you can’t outrun a bad diet in any way or form. So that has to be true, and we are gonna get into that with you too. But it does give you fast enough results. And people are always asking me, like, my patients are asking me for motivation. And I’m like, results are the motivation.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

I think so. I mean, like the first five years, I think, were the skinniest, and not like through anorexia. They were just the leanest I had ever been. And I I felt like I loved the way I look, right? And I I didn’t look bulky. It wasn’t until I became a professional power lifter that I actually purposefully bulked up. Yes. But prior to becoming a professional athlete, I worked out four to five days a week, one to two hours at a time. So that’s upwards of 10 hours a week. And I did not gain weight. I lost weight. It wasn’t until I decided I’m gonna be a professional, I’m gonna take this to the next level that I bulked up and got much bigger muscles. You have, as a woman, you have to really try. Like if I wanted to look like the stereotype of what everyone said I’d look like, I would have to devote myself to like eating and working out all the time to attain a physique that large. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

If you’re not relying on exogenous support, right? And I’m not saying anything that it’s right or wrong. I’m just saying like that some people do it and that’s fine. If it for women though, if we look at uh female physiology, because I’m a physiologist, I’m gonna talk to that, that women just don’t have that hormonal profile to support that kind of bulking without like literally dedicating a lot of hours in the gym and really dialing in on that nutrition aspect. And it it also ends up being that bulk cycle and then cut cycle and bulk cycle and that cut cycle. Right. So would you I would like your take on that, like bulk and cut, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah, I mean, I I joke as a powerlifter, you’re just always bulking. Yeah, it’s very fun because uh as as you get bigger, you get stronger. So um most of the time I’m either bulking or like I’m not bulking, but there’s not much cutting.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Okay, yes, makes sense. Makes sense, makes sense, but you go into maintenance. Yeah, yeah. So you bulk and maintain, bulk and maintain.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

That’s awesome. There’s a lot of eating that goes on. But like I said, you know, as a woman, if I didn’t eat and work out all the time, I would be much smaller, you know. So when people are like, oh, well, you know, you’re you’re kind of big, I don’t want to get that bulky. I’m like, yes, but I try really hard to get this big. Yes. If you had met me 10 years ago, I was 20 pounds lighter. Yes. And I was still working out a lot.

unknown 15:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And that’s your goal, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yes, we can all have different goals. If we’re talking about health and longevity, which I do want to talk about here, you don’t have to do that, right? Yeah, that’s right. Unless you want to. Unless you want to. You don’t have to. And that speaks a lot to the fact that yes, muscle actually carries less space. I always call it like spanks for our bodies, right? So yeah, because women come to me and they’re like, oh, but that dress kind of like is uh loose on me, which used to be like quite snug. And I’m like, yes, because now you know you’re gaining muscle. You you’re replacing fat or adipose tissue with muscle mass, and that’s what’s gonna happen. And if you keep on can or if you continue on this path, you will start seeing like that needle on the scale move too. It might not move in the first few weeks right away, but it is gonna move. Right, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. So, okay. Let’s start back at the beginning for someone who’s not familiar with weightlifting at all, because a lot of my female patients are there, still there. They’re like, we love elliptical, and or we will go for a jog.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

That was me. That was me 15. Or we’ll go out for a jog two or three times. I only did the elliptical and I did abs. Yeah. And then occasionally I did pink weights and I did barbell. I did biceps and shoulders.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah. So a lot of my patients are still there and they’re looking for support, which is a great thing, you know, which is a great point to be at. So, someone, um, a woman who’s listening to us who has never really lifted before, what does a smart first month of like strength training look like? I’d like for you to share about like reps, sets, which exercises pay like the biggest payout.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Sure. I mean, I think I’d take it a step back more and I’d say, you know, if you’re an absolute beginner, I always recommend having a personal trainer for the first few sessions. I know it is an expense, it is a luxury to have a personal trainer. I was so like risk-averse and cautious when I was younger because I was told all these horrible things would happen to me in the gym. Yeah, that for the first two years I did not lift on my own. You know, and I I guess that’s a very good thing, right? Yeah, but it turned out to be a good thing. And then when I started powerlifting, you know, 15 years ago, everyone said deadlifts are bad. They said you’re you’re gonna pull your back deadlifting. That’s the most dangerous move you can do. So I never power lifted without my personal trainer. And I hired a powerlifting coach, someone who’s specific for powerlifting because I never wanted to hurt myself. And I never lifted alone because I was everything just seemed so daunting and dangerous. So what I’m trying to say is um I’ve been there where everything felt daunting and dangerous. Now I lift on my own. Now I feel these things aren’t that hard. They’re not that dangerous, but it took a while to get there, even for me. It took many years. Um I’d say if you can hire uh a trainer to teach you every move at least once. They don’t have to be with you the whole time. Just learn proper form. Maybe you can watch it on YouTube, or maybe you can have the trainer teach you and you can record and you could re-watch. Yes. That’s good. Um, because the movements that have the best bang for your buck metabolically are the hardest because they use so many muscles. Being that they are hard and being that they use so many muscles, that is that is also the bigger chance of injury, right? So nothing comes for free. Um barbell deadlift and then clean and jerk. Very difficult movements, but metabolically great. Okay. Um, squat is also good, and then bench press, shoulder press, I think are great too. They’re all barbell, they all use many muscle groups. Now, would I tell someone who’s like 40 and never been to the gym before to teach it to themselves? I don’t think so.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Right? I would tell them scale it back, use the single-axis machines first. Yes. Um do some research online. Like maybe there’s some books that show like good biomechanics for these movements. There are some YouTubers, you can’t trust all of them. You should be very picky with who you follow. When you’re feeling like you’ve done enough research, you can move up to dumbbells. You can do dumbbell bench press, you can do a goblet squat, you can do dumbbell deadlift, right? But I think the end goal should be to get to that barbell. Yes, yes, because barbell is the biggest payout. It is the biggest workout that you can do with your team.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yes, absolutely. And I want to highlight a few things and then tie it back to this someone who is starting out because I think that’s what a lot of our audience members are like looking for because they’re like, okay, but I’ve I haven’t been in a weight room since I was in college. Right. And in college, you probably did it incorrectly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s what I was just gonna say. You weren’t like really worried about it. You were just doing it with your friends, right? It wasn’t anything.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

It was among it.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

So true. But one of the things you just mentioned is like start with a trainer. And I want to just emphasize that, and I say that to my clients all the time that I understand like it is an investment, like there is no denying it. Uh I do see the price of gas outside, like I do know what’s going on. But if there was one thing you could invest in at some point, especially when you’re starting out, just for eight weeks. I agree. Yeah. Work with a trainer, figure out how to use the machines. There normally is a circuit you can do in most in most of the gyms. Ask them which machine does what? Which muscle group am I working? Or you know, what’s the best form? Work under their supervision for at least eight weeks. That would give you a head start. Yeah. Right? I agree.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Yeah. And you know, they let you just record everything they tell you too.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

That’s a great, yeah. That’s actually a very good tip, which yeah, I kind of learned very late. Yeah, no, but now I record most of my workouts just to watch myself. Yeah, just to watch myself. I still make mistakes. I make so many mistakes. Like I do too, and I do this professionally, right? Right. We’re always learning. There’s always something to improve in any kind of exercise, not just weightlifting. I’m a distance runner too. I mean, I record my runs when I’m fatigued, like my last mile. I try to record it because that’s when my form is really frail. And I’m like, what am I doing? How can I improve? What kind of corrective work do I need to do? What kind of strength, uh strengthening exercises do I need to bring in in the next few weeks just to make sure that you know I am in good shape when I’m running? So that all of those are great. The other thing I wanted to say for someone who’s starting out, the goal is to get to free weights, which barbell is the king of the free weights, uh, or queen in our case, right? Queen of the free weights, but you can also use dumbbells, you can use kettlebells, all good uh resistance-based stimulus, right? You’re getting for your body. Uh, but start with machines just because they’re safe. And I think we were just talking about your story and you started out with with machines.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I did machines. I did machines probably for the first year. At some point during that year, I did barbell deadlift, but I didn’t do anything else for like just it was just machines and deadlift for maybe like two years. At some point, I added in shoulder press, clean impress, and then I very seldom squatted. And ironically, so all my world records are in the bench press. That was the movement I learned last. And I actively avoided it because I I at the time was a skinny Asian female who believed I had no upper body strength and did not want to develop it because I, you know, bulky and I didn’t want to lose my chest or whatever reason, right? Yeah. I was very apprehensive to actually bench press.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Wow. Okay. We need to talk about that off the mic sometime because yes, my upper body strength is not where my lower body strength is, but it’s also because I’ve been running a distance runner for four 14 years now.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

That’s an excuse that everyone makes. I said the same thing. I said, Oh, I’m a martial artist, I have no upper body strength. I, you know, it took me four years to do one pull-up. There’s just no way I’m gonna be any good at bench press. I’ll just avoid this. Yeah. And then like three years later, I have like all the world records and bench press in my weight class.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Wow. That’s amazing. That’s amazing. So that means women have upper body strength. We just don’t train. We just don’t train. Yeah, we just don’t train for it.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

It’s a fear-based story we tell ourselves. So true. So true.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Okay. I’m I’m learning. Even I’m learning. And that’s why I host this podcast as we were coming up in the elevator, right? You were asking me, oh, what was the start of the podcast? Why uh I started because I needed this as like as a resource for my corporate work, uh, the workshops that I present at corporations, but I got hooked because I was like, I am learning so much from this podcast. I’m gonna keep going. So yeah, no, thank you. Thanks for adding to my knowledge. Let’s talk about things that are happening in our life outside of gym and you know, just home. A lot of my patients, a lot of my clients who are listening to this podcast, they are busy. They are also corporate athletes, I like to call them. Like they have full-time jobs. Uh, some of them also have families, and they’re they’re like, you know what? I mean, in an ideal world, if I could work part-time or if I could give up my job, I would listen to you, Aisha, and I’ll do what you’re saying. Go to the gym four to five days a week and spend the amount of time that you’re mentioning in the gym to have more muscle mass. A lot of them also travel for work. Yep. Okay. So the reason I’m bringing this up with you is because when you were training, you were also working full-time and traveling. And I think you were telling me uh me the story the other day at that panel discussion that the reason you started was because you were gaining weight and you were traveling a lot, right? Because travel kind of like throws our schedule and routine off. And it’s very hard to work out. Like, I’m not saying it’s impossible, it’s it’s just difficult to do it. So, how did you fit like training around a demanding job and travel for our listeners who are in the same boat and they’re like, I’m so exhausted. I mean, how can I get myself to the weight room, especially on the days that I travel? Um, and those who are short on time and or nervous about going into a hotel’s weight room. What’s realistic?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

What can they do? Yeah, I mean, I think it’s about making compromises, right? So knowing that maybe you’re not gonna have the perfect day and the perfect workout, um, you have to you have to pick, um, unfortunately, right? It’s like what’s most important when I’m traveling. If it’s like a high pressure travel for work, you’d say sleep is the most important. That’s like the one thing you can control. You can’t always control what you eat because there’s going to be like corporate dinners and corporate happy hours. And, you know, obviously you don’t want to be like the weird one who’s like, oh, I’m only gonna eat chicken and rice when I’m out with my colleagues, I’m not gonna drink when everyone’s at like work happy hours. So I get that, right? That’s gonna slide. Um, sleep well and then take advantage of the hotel gym. When when I first started my traveling job, I was straight out of college, and the only way I knew how to work out was I would take group classes, I’d do martial arts classes. And then, you know, part of the reason hiring a personal trainer appealed because I was like, when I travel, the only thing I really have is the hotel gym. Most of these hotels we have pools, right? So I can’t swim. I have to learn how to do some basic weightlifting if I want to do anything on the road.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

So, you know, I make friends with the hotel gym. You can also bring equipment for when you travel, like resistance bands. There are portable, there are portable machines that act like what what’s it called? That act like gym machines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those seem like they’re a little bit more trouble than they’re worth. It depends how long you’re gone for.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Uh resistance bands are great. Yeah. I mean, if you have heavy enough resistance bands, you can do a lot of, lot of stuff with those monster bands. Yeah. Like you can just throw a couple of monster bands in your suitcase and you you can be golden.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah. And normally when I’m back home, a typical workout is anywhere from like one to two hours, right? But on the road, I tell myself, if I could just get in half an hour and make it good, that’s like that, if that’s the best I can do today, that’s fine, right? But don’t phone in.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Show up.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

But show up though. Pick what’s going to make that half an hour good. If it’s like, I will find two heavy dumbbells and I will do heavy dumbbell presses for a high intensity, and I’m gonna do this many sets and reps, and I that’s all the time I have. I I think that’s great. That’s it’s not nothing. You know, it counts towards the bottom line. It’s better than just doing cardio at like a really low intensity and zoning out, you know, just be intentional.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah, that’s uh true. The second question is kind of also along the lines of someone who’s a busy corporate professional, doesn’t have that much time to train. What could be some realistic timelines? Because I we heard your story, and I think I can relate with everything you said, because I’ve had a very, very similar journey, although I started more in the running world, and then I started taking up strength training because I was getting injured all the time, and I’m like, I need to strengthen my muscles, otherwise, this is gonna be the story of my life. I don’t want to give up running. My stimulus was different. But that being said, what can what can they expect the initial weeks of training to look like? And if you were to give them a few pointers as far as nutrition is concerned, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Hmm, okay, what would the first couple weeks of working out look like? Probably really difficult, if I’m to be honest, right? Everything’s gonna be sore, everything’s gonna feel really difficult. So I would say start with a single access machine and do that for maybe like two to three months. And then instead of just graduating to dumbbells, try different varieties of the machines or try different different variations of grips or whatever, right? So that you’re you don’t want to get strong only in one direction and then move in another direction. That’s very difficult. So I would say do that and then move to move to dumbbells. Once again, get good at that, try different variations. That would probably also take maybe like three months. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

No, I agree with you. It does take a little bit of time to develop that foundation, which we call like which you need in any exercise, any form of exercise. Like in running, we actually tried to do aerobic training for the first eight weeks of any training cycle to build that foundation. Once you have that foundation built, then you can, you know, you can add on speed, you can add on miles. Same thing with strength training. You can add on weight, you can add on different um different stimulus, right? That being said, though, one thing that you just mentioned, oh, move in different directions. Make sure that you’re moving in different planes of motion. I’m just using a technical term over here. So I want you to expand on that because I do talk about that on my podcast. I talk to my patients about it all the time, but I want to hear from you because I feel like whenever I have an expert on the podcast, they just explain it differently, differently than I do.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

I mean, I think it sounds contradictory too. When people are starting off, we tell them pick a machine and just keep it incredibly simple, right? Because this is our first time moving, you just want the movement to be simple. You want to just press in one direction and you want to just do one thing. So, unfortunately, though, if you’re just only doing that, then you’re only getting good at pressing that one direction, right? So I think a common example, most people when they first train legs, we tell them do the leg press because it’s very straightforward. You just push in a direction. Yeah. Um, but unless you’re changing it up, that does not convert to knowing how to squat well. First of all, I mean, I think the leg press does not develop you in the same way like a squat would, obviously, right? You’re just gonna push a very hundred arbitrary direction. Yes. There’s no like the neuromuscular component’s not there, the coordination’s not there. So if you were to graduate from a leg press to a squat immediately, it would be very, very hard. You’d probably do some interim movements, maybe Bulgarian split squats, maybe some lunges, maybe bodyweight squats. And you do all that first before we said, okay, now try it with a barbell.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. I I agree with you. And yes, although there is a lot of value in using like uh machines on an axis and you know, starting your training there, it does not always translate into a better squat. It can, but it does not. You have a certain strength component of like muscle fibers, we you are using the same muscle fibers, but the movement isn’t exactly replicated. So try to learn all those different body weight moves too. Right. Because that allows you to move in different planes of motion, which is your sagittal, transverse is diagonal, and then frontal is side to side or lateral. So those are some planes of motion, like all three planes of motion, you should be very confident in moving and you know, um, loading weight, either body weight and or some form of free weight in those planes of motion. Uh, because we are always working sagittal, anyways. Right. Sitting down, it’s a sagittal walking, it’s sagittal, sagittal plane of motion. And that’s actually what contributes to a lot of uh muscle imbalances in our body. So you want the str uh, the weight room or the strength floor to be the place where you actually address those muscle imbalances. And strength training is the best way to do that.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Right. And then for the more complicated strength training, primarily barbell motions, um, most of your initial strength gains are actually coordination gains, right? Like someone who can only squat on the barbell 45 pounds one day, and then three weeks later they can squat 80 pounds. They didn’t get 35 pounds stronger, right? They got 35 pounds more coordinated. Yes. That’s why we say you have to keep it simple, but then you have to train the coordination so that you can you can handle more weight. Once you can handle more weight, then you know, then the muscles will come, but you you have to train your coordination first.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Emily, the next question is something, again, I get a lot of. And I’m gonna ask you this because you have like benched to almost two and a half times your body weight, right? And a lot of women don’t believe they that can happen. That is possible.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

I didn’t believe it was possible for myself either. For real? I mean, I if you had told me how much you think you can bench, I so I think I weighed 120 pounds when I first started powerlifting. I would have said, Oh, I think I could bench 165. And then if someone said, Do you think you could ever bench twice your body weight? I’d say, No, not with my upper body. I’m so weak. Yeah, I think, but I think that’s what women are told by society, right? It’s like this, like like I said earlier, it’s like this story that we’re not strong because if we were strong, we would look disgusting and butch.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yeah, yeah, no, so true, so true. So that being said, that means that women can lose fat and build muscle, right? Sure, everyone can, yes. But but that’s not what we believe. Right, yeah. How can women get over that component or that obstacle or that mindset that, oh no, if I um lift, I’m gonna actually get fatter and I don’t want that for myself.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Think of the public figure who has the sexiest body that you would want for yourself. So, as a female, don’t think of the hottest guy. Think of the hottest Hollywood celebrity that has a body that you would want. That person, a thousand percent, has a personal trainer and they lift weights because that person probably has a round butt, they probably have round shoulders, and they probably have a line down their stomach. Yeah. That does not come from not lifting weights.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Absolutely. I couldn’t, you know, agree more. And you’re you’re the living proof that you know strength means you can be light. And strength of muscle fibers is totally different than the size of muscle fibers, right? Correct. They are correlated to some extent, but the amount of muscle mass you carry and the size of a muscle fiber is a totally different component of exercise or fitness than the strength of the muscle fiber. Because I’ve seen women, women uh body uh builders who are very, very, very lean and they don’t have a lot of muscle mass on them, but they can lift. When I say they can lift heavy, they can lift heavy. And um, that includes all the distance runners, by the way. Yeah, muscle density is they all lift. I mean, they lift real heavy, they don’t show that. And that’s my beef with like distance runners, because I’m like, why don’t you guys show that yes, you are also lifting? Because there’s no way that you can stay on the road for so long and produce that much running power without lifting heavy weights. I mean, I lift heavy, right? My deadlift is 250 pounds and I weigh like half of that, right? Um, because I have to keep it that way if I want to run. That being said, a lot of women are like, nah, that’s not happening. I’m like, no, it is how it works. So your muscle fiber strength is totally like different than what um the size of the muscle fiber is. So I think that’s where there’s a little bit of a misconception or a myth still going on, and I wanted to clarify it that yes, you can be strong. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Yeah. Yeah. The density, as you said, muscle density is totally different than muscle strength, the strength of your muscle fiber. So you’re a great, you know, role model for that. Thanks. I want to talk about your most recent world record that you set. And if you I know it’s not like um something polite to say, but is it okay if I accept your age? Of course, yeah. Okay. So at 41 years, right? In 2023, you set the world record for bench press. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Please tell us about it. So that was my third world record in bench press, my fourth in general. But that was the one I wanted the most. So when I first when I first became a professional lifter, I uh I attributed that to like my first world record. That was 200, I think, 15, 2014 or 15. I don’t remember exactly. And I broke two bench press world records that year. Wow. And they they, you know, they kind of they felt like they came easier than this one did, right? Okay. It was like I benched, there’s just two numbers in like the low 200s, and it was in one weight class, and then I went up to another weight class and I broke that record.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

And then uh about two. Okay, break it down a little bit for me. Yeah, because so powerlifting.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Our audience might not be familiar with the weight class. Yeah. So when you compete in powerlifting, they take your weight, and you say, I’m gonna compete against people in this band of weight. Yeah, I was 114 pounds. So I competed against people who weighed between, I think it was like between 105 and 114. That was my weight class. Okay. And so I benched the most any woman who weighed that much has ever benched in the the history of powerlifting. And so that was my first one. In that uh in that uh yeah, weight. Between 114 is very skinny. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I quickly gained like five pounds. And then I competed again a few months later. Uh and then so that is anyone who weighs between 114 to 123. Okay. I competed at about 120 pounds. Got it. And then I broke that bench press record. Wow. And then um, when I broke that bench press record, I also broke the world record for the best powerlifting cumulative score for that weight class. Wow. So I had three world records in one year, and that felt great. And I stayed in the 123 weight quests for most of my powerlifting career. So about 10 years I competed at 128. Sure, sure. And so every time I got a little stronger, I would I would continue to break my bench record. Okay. And so it, I think the first time I broke it was like 240 something. Then it was like 270 something, then it was 280 something. And I was so close to hitting 300 that I wanted that to be my next world record. Yeah. And I I looked, if I went up one weight class to 132, if I benched 303, that would take that world record’s weight class. Yeah. That took forever. Just getting strong. At this point, I have so much wear and tear in my body. All I do is I work out. I’m working out 15 hours a week. I’m eating all the time. I’m not sleeping well because I have a corporate job and I think I’m just burning the candle both ends.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

So my recovery is not as good as it could be. I’m also overtraining. I did not learn what overtraining some uh over-training syndrome was until much later. I was tell us, tell us about it. You can definitely overdo it. You can work out so hard that you’re actually not getting stronger, you’re not recovering.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

So some some of our listeners are also athletes, especially runners are known to overtrain. And a lot of my friends are runners. Uh they um I belong to New York Roadrunners actually over here, and I sometimes coach too. So um tell tell us about that overtraining. What did it look like? How did you figure out like you were at that point?

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Yeah. So with overtraining, you don’t sleep. So there’s two types, right? There is uh sympathetic and parasympathetic. Yeah. So there’s one where so you’re one of them, you’re just in a heightened aggressive state the whole time. And it’s like you feel like you’re maxing out at the gym, but all the time, particularly when you’re trying to sleep. Yes. So I just felt I was on edge all the time. And it didn’t help that I worked at Google, so I got free coffee at the coffee bar. So it was this vicious cycle where I’d I would work out in the evening, I’d work out for three hours. So get home from the gym around eight.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

And I’d be like just so amped up. Yeah, yeah. And then I couldn’t sleep. And then I’d have to wake up the next day for work, and then I would just drink all this coffee to power through it. Yes. And I’d go back to the gym and I’d repeat the cycle. So I never slept. And as the training got more intense, I actually was not recovering. And I felt like I was actually getting weaker because I was my body was just running so suboptimally at that point. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so for that’s for like people who do like intense workouts. For people who do endurance workouts, I’m told overtraining syndrome feels like you’re you’re tired all the time. You sleep too much. Yes. So they have the opposite problem. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Yeah. Exactly. But it’s also, I think one of the things that you’re just mentioning, and I want to highlight that over here because something people should be aware of. Working out too close to your bedtime, like I think you were doing. Yes. Right? I’m not saying evening workouts are not for you. If that is the time where you can squeeze in a workout, go for it. But for a lot of people, not everybody, but for a lot of people, that is stimulating. And it it can interrupt your sleep. And sleep is the king and queen for any kind of gains, any kind, any kind of fitness gains when we are talking about it is as important as nutrition, if not more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

And time under high intensity matters too, right? Yeah. Because some of these workouts were two and a half hours. So realistically, I should have worked out less. I should have worked out, I should have kept it between 60 to 90 minutes. Yeah. If it was 90 minutes and my time under high intensity would probably be 60 minutes. Sure. Then I wouldn’t have been like so amped up at night. Right. No. So true. So because of that, uh getting that last world record took forever. I got really, really close. In 2019, and then I didn’t quite get it in the competition. I was really bummed. Then COVID happened and like the world shut down. Yes. And so that was like two years I couldn’t train. So it’s just it felt like, you know, I think so. You didn’t like create like a garage gym or something. I would, you know, I found someone with a garage gym, but it just wasn’t the same. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then for a while.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

It’s not. It’s not. If you want to do all the training getting it, you also couldn’t like leave your house, right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

It was it was pretty rough. Yeah. Yeah. So um world records one, two, and three were in one year. And then number four happened almost 10 years later.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

And maybe that’s so many attempts. Yeah. And also, like maybe your body needed that kind of like time to just adjust to the stimulus that you were trying to introduce.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Yeah. I think there’s also like a lot of growing up I had to do because you know, when you are new to lifting, you can train really hard. You can push yourself. Yes. But you can’t train at like full intensity your whole entire uh training life, right? Yeah at some point inflammation becomes a thing, injuries become a thing, wear and tear becomes a thing. You train smarter. Yes. So uh it took a lot of like accepting like, oh, older people have to train different. And not old in age, I mean old in training age. Yeah. So I was like, hit the one decade mark of inflammation.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Yeah. Because I think, you know, talking about longevity on this podcast, I do want to bring it in. How old were you when you um set your fourth or fifth?

SPEAKER_00 45:29

It was 41. So it was an eight-year gap between world record one and world record number four. Wow. So you’re telling me women over 40 can still be strong? It is hard, but yeah, of course you can be strong. I think you just have to change how you work out, right? What what were the some changes? What were some changes that you made? Yeah, okay. So working out for me was in stages. I think the first two years of power lifting, uh, the gains, you get strong really fast because most of it’s coordination gains. Sure. And that creates this like false sense of like, oh my God, like I can train like this forever, get strong forever. Yeah. So the first two years are incredibly easy. They’re the easiest it’s going to be to get strong. Okay. Then years three to five, you know, you’re it slows down, but you can still train pretty hard. By year three to five, my body was so conditioned that I thought I could get there faster if I added more time in the gym. Yeah. And my body was so conditioned it could accommodate that, right? Because I was felt so physically fit. By year five, I started paying the price for that. So while I was physically fit and I was conditioned, and I could do an extra five hours a week in the gym. The wear and tear and the inflammation got to the point where I wasn’t recovering the way I was expecting to. And everyone just said, Oh, it’s because you’re old. Yeah, sure, I was old, but it wasn’t because I was old, it was because I was overdoing it, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:47

No, recovery is a big, big, big aspect of just training and gaining fitness, even if it’s for just longevity and health. You have to recover well. Okay. So what are your tips for recovery?

SPEAKER_00 47:02

So uh don’t train like you’re, you know, whatever age you were 10 years ago. So, you know, it’s so corny to say don’t don’t train harder, train smarter. It’s true. Don’t train harder, train smarter. I train smarter, uh, train less, more rest, shorter, shorter time under high intensity. Yeah. Um, and then the least fun part, more prehab and rehab. Like I I don’t actually think stretching works as well as people say, but I’m a frequent like self-massager. I do like ART, I do like active release. Yeah. And um, by the time I was maybe six years into powerlifting, I had to release everything at least once a week. I bet. Yeah. If not, I was so the main reason I couldn’t hit my bench goal, I had no idea that, you know, I all of my muscles were so tight that they would get too tight on competition day and I would lose my range of motion. Yes. And, you know, my doctors would be like, Do you think you’re injured? And I’d say, No, nothing hurts. It turns out that like you have to roll out more than your pecs if you’re benching, right? You have to roll out your shoulders, you have to roll out, you have to release your back muscles. You have to there are a lot of muscles in the back, you have to release exactly muscles.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Oh, yeah. Back has a lot of muscles, which we don’t want to.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

And then there’s your pay attention to so from a desk job I had to release here. Yeah. Sometimes I had to release my neck. Yeah. So it’s just um, it was a constant chase of which muscle is too tight for me today.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

So I think that’s the sadder part about like when you’re more trained as an athlete, you’re also everything’s sore, everything’s tight all the time.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Yeah, yeah. Because you’re training so much, like you’re loading those muscles. Yeah. So you have to spend equal, if not more, amount of time to just, you know, elongate those muscles too, and just release that tension or knots, what we called adhesions in our scientific terms. Okay, a couple of questions to close it up, and I want to talk about your book next. But is does cardio have a place in your training routine?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Minimally. So I don’t do more than like 10 minutes of cardio, but I do high intensity. You do hit, I do, I do a hit and I do it to train my recovery in between um competition lifts. Okay. So got it. Yeah, I do it as a warm-up, just maybe like when I’m good, I do six rounds of uh like sprints on the aerodyne bike. Okay. And like that’s not to lose weight because it’s like six rounds of 30 seconds. That’s not enough cardio to train my heart to recover quickly in between like reps. Yes. Okay. Great.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

The other question, I have to address this, otherwise, it’s like all the women are gonna come after me. Because this is one of the questions I get most asked. Like it’s a frequently asked question in my DMs. Women search for how to tone their arms, glutes, and abs. Like these are the top three concerns, and I know you spoke to that earlier. Um and they’re searching for it far more than searching for how to build muscle. Right. Okay. So, what’s actually happening in the body when we say toned? And is spot reduction a thing in your experience? You know it’s not.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

It’s definitely not. And you know, I think like I’ve said this earlier, when when someone says, Oh, I just want to like tone, I want a toned body. If you were to ask them, what is this toned body you speak of? Show me, right? Yes, they’re gonna show you a picture of a lean person with some amount of shoulder muscle, some amount of ab muscle, and some amount of butt muscle. So, like you need muscle to get this toned body that you speak of.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

So true. Do you have any uh any pet peeves or misconceptions of your own, like that you have heard from people?

SPEAKER_00 50:55

I mean, that one is one of them. The one where it’s like, how many sit-ups do I need to do to get a six-pack? Well, realistically, none. You just need to lose 20 pounds. And then, like, after you lose the 20 pounds, you can do some sit-ups. Oh, yeah. No, it’s like, can’t I just lose like wait here if I only do sit-ups? I get asked that a lot. I think uh people have gotten better about that though. I I think now that like That’s a good thing. Yeah, now the consumers are a little bit more like more educated. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

And this is also the effort to do that. That’s great. One more quick, like, real like quickfire question for you because again, I know it as soon as I publish this, everybody’s gonna be asking me this question. Protein and meal timing for someone who’s trying to gain muscle mass. Um, you know, how much protein do you time it a certain weight? Tell us your best practices.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Okay, if you are trying to gain muscle mass and you have a life outside the gym, meal timing does not matter nearly as much as just eating good food. Right? I think protein, yes, have enough protein. Um point seven, your body weight in grams, I think is good. Yes. Uh I know a lot of people, a lot of bodybuilders will have like, they’ll say like 1.5. I kind of think that’s a waste of money at that point. I think it’s more calories than you need. I think 0.7 is probably fine for most beginners. Okay. Um carbs are good. 0.7 grams per pound. Okay. And then if you want to bulk up, you can have more. Yeah. But if you’re if you’re not concerned about like, if you’re not trying to become a bodybuilder, if you’re not trying to bulk up, 0.7 is probably a good starting point. I think carbs are fine. I I think for some reason nuts are like really overblown as workout food. I don’t know how it got this way, but you know, people always like like to eat nuts as pre- and post-workout. I think they’re fine, that’s good fat, but they actually don’t really contribute much to um muscle building. Okay. So just make sure you have enough carbs that you have a good workout and enough carbs that you can recover. And then same with protein, enough protein that you can recover. Uh, carb timing matters more than protein timing. Yeah. But talk to that. Okay. You you need carbs to have a good workout. You need carbs will give you energy for the workout. And then after you work out, you know, you want carbs to replenish your muscles. If you are a recreational lifter and you’re just trying to have a good time in the gym, hey, that’s all that’s all you really need to worry about. Just have enough carbs that you have energy for your workout. And then have protein um throughout the day so that way you can heal from your workout. But besides that, don’t mind the timing too much. Like there’s no reason to drive yourself crazy if you know, if just going to the gym for you is about getting healthy, then I think this isn’t enough.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Awesome. That’s great. Uh, I think you kind of like clarified a lot of like misconception misconceptions and myths out there. Um, yeah, I say between 0.7 to 1 gram per pound of body weight is a good bracket to have for women. Creatine. Oh, I love creatine. You do? I do, yeah. You think it works? Oh, it definitely works.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Yeah, tell us. Well, I mean, scientifically, it’s it’s so well studied and it’s so safe, right? Yeah. But uh, you know, phospho creatine, so uh the explosive muscle group in your muscle, it retains water, and the water has a phosphate for ATP. Yeah, and so it gets that from creatine. Creatine helps it store uh phosphate for ATP, so it’s it helps your muscle make energy for explosive reps. Yeah. For powerlifting, I feel the difference when I use creatine. Yes. However, creatine does bloat you because it literally makes your muscles retain water. Yeah. And I mean, it makes kind of everywhere retain water. So um, I tell men to take it because it’ll make them look more swole. Yes, yes, yeah. And that’s all that is.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

That’s all muscle is like if you’re going for a physique competition or and or you’re a professional bodybuilder, I tell people all the time that what you’re seeing is actually water retention in the muscle or glycogen, which we like to call it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

So I mean, I think it works great for water retention in the muscle. Uh, but a lot of women don’t like the way it makes them look because you know you will look more muscular. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

But it does help with lifting part, like you know, that or explosive lift.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Yes. So if you’re doing something endurance-wise, I don’t think it’s gonna help. But if you want a power lift, it’s great for powerlifting, it’s great for Olympic lifting.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. It’s good for endurance too. In my experience, we do use it for endurance athletes, but um uh, and we don’t get as much of a swollen effect because we are using it at the same time. All the glycogen stores are being used. If you’re going for a long run twice a week, you’re you’re those are gone by that by the end of your run. The other thing is though, um, it’s good for your cognitive health. Yeah, creative, right? Yeah, if you start feeling like you’re not you’re getting brain fog or you know, losing focus and stuff, it it’s great for that. It it helps you. Talk to us about your book.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

So I think right after I broke my world record, I wrote a actually, no, this is right after the pandemic. So I guess they’re all around the same time. Nice. Um, I wrote a book for busy adults who want to learn how to diet, work out, just mind their fitness and nutrition for the first time. So I called it The Smart Simple Guide to a Better Physique. And it’s written through the lens of my experience as a professional athlete and a biomedical researcher who had a full-time job the whole time I was in a way class sport. So, you know, um, I I like to believe that I make nutrition and working out like simple for the first timer. And I talk about good ways to start if you don’t have a lot of time, simple heuristics for making decisions, like better nutrition decisions, how to like pick like safe weights to use, which exercises to do, the rep ranges. And then yeah, I just talk about um if you’re a busy person, what decisions do you make with regards to your health and fitness? Like, yeah, obviously prioritize sleep, but if you really want to lose weight and you don’t want to make a lot of decisions, what are some things you can cut out, right? Yeah. And one of them is like added fat. One of them is like added added carbs, like don’t drink calories.

SPEAKER_01 57:07

Yes, yes, absolutely. Oh, I love that. I love that. I think we can all use that book. I’m gonna, I actually checked it out before coming here, and I would highly recommend that you guys check it out too. And um I have the link included in the show notes for simplicity, so you can just go and download it. It’s available on Amazon, right? Yes, awesome. Where else can our listeners and fewer viewers find out about you?

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Um, I have an Instagram account. I’m not that active these days because admittedly I don’t compete like I used to. So, you know, I feel like I don’t feel like showcasing as much as my lifts. And then also like I’m on LinkedIn for my professional life.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

Awesome, awesome. Those are both great places to be on. That’s where I am at too. So yeah, Instagram, LinkedIn, look for Emily Who and follow her. Thank you, Emily. Thanks for all of this. Thanks for being a guest. Yeah, thanks for sharing all the goodness. Honestly, there were there are so many myths and misconceptions that you clarified for our audience, which I know that it’s hard for me to do because I’m not a professional lifter. Um, I only talk about like running in professional spaces, but for you being here and helping us understand what it takes to be a professional lifter and how it is accessible and achievable and reachable goal for women to have was amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. And thanks everyone for listening to us today. I’ll be back with another another episode of Nine to Five Wellness Podcast soon. Bye.